Thursday, March 6, 2008

GM, Toyota Doubtful on Fuel Cells' Mass Use - WSJ.com

GM, Toyota Doubtful on Fuel Cells' Mass Use - WSJ.com

By EDWARD TAYLOR and MIKE SPECTORMarch 5, 2008; Page B2

GENEVA -- Top executives from General Motors Corp. and Toyota Motor Corp. Tuesday expressed doubts about the viability of hydrogen fuel cells for mass-market production in the near term and suggested their companies are now betting that electric cars will prove to be a better way to reduce fuel consumption and cut tailpipe emissions on a large scale.
Speaking at the Geneva auto show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz told reporters that recent advances in lithium-ion batteries indicate that future electric cars might be able to travel 300 miles, or nearly 500 kilometers, before they need to recharge, making them much more practical as a mass-market product.
"If we get lithium-ion to 300 miles, then you need to ask yourself, Why do you need fuel cells?" Mr. Lutz told reporters. He added that fuel-cell vehicles are still far too expensive to be considered for the mass market. "We are nowhere [near] where we need to be on the costs curve," he said.
At a separate event at the show, Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe echoed the concern about the high costs of fuel cells and noted the lack of an infrastructure to produce and distribute hydrogen fuel to a wide swath of consumers. These factors leave him with the impression that "it will be difficult to see the spread of fuel cells in 10 years' time," Mr. Watanabe said.
The comments indicate a shift in the auto industry's tone regarding fuel cells, especially at GM, which has spent the past two years highlighting its fuel-cell technologies as one of many initiatives it is pursuing to reduce petroleum consumption.
Fuel cells use hydrogen to create electricity, and have been hailed for years as the technology that will power no-emission cars of the future. Several years ago, GM essentially dropped its work on battery-powered cars to focus on fuel cells. Since then, Toyota has taken the lead on gas-electric hybrids, although it is working on fuel cells, too.
In the past two years, GM has been trying to improve its image with increasingly green-minded consumers by playing up its work on green vehicles, often with Mr. Lutz -- sometimes referred to in Detroit as Mr. Horsepower for his love of big, powerful cars -- as its chief spokesman.
The centerpiece of the effort is an electric car called the Volt, which includes a small gasoline engine to charge its battery on the go. GM hopes to launch the first Volt by 2010. Future versions may use fuel cells to charge the battery. The campaign has won fans among environmentalists for GM, a company previously scorned by many in the green crowd.
Mr. Lutz's comments in Geneva come at an awkward time for him. A few weeks ago, he told a reporter that he thinks global warming is a "crock of s -- ," raising questions about his commitment to GM's new green path. After news of his global-warming position spread on the Internet, he posted a response on GM's blog saying his personal views don't affect the company's direction.
Not all auto makers are backing away from fuel cells. Daimler AG expects to begin producing fuel-cell cars in limited quantities in 2010, Chief Executive Dieter Zetsche told reporters in Geneva. If demand takes off, Daimler could get the technology "into the cost range of conventional power trains," Mr. Zetsche said.
--John D. Stoll contributed to this article.

1 comment:

Patrick C said...

From James:

The other reason we call them "Fool Cells" is that the manufacturers keep advertising them as "Pollution Free", "No CO2", "No Global Warming", "Look you can drink the water dripping out of the tailpipe".

Whereas the reality is that the plan for the foreseeable future is to continue making the hydrogen gas locally at the hydrogen "gas station" from natural gas, where a simple process strips the CO2 from the natural gas leaving hydrogen, and the CO2 is sent up a little pipe "smokestack" at the back of the hydrogen "gas station" where it joins all the other CO2 global warming gases in the atmosphere -- just as if you had directly burned the natural gas in your car in the first place.

So if natural gas is going to be the feedstock for the hydrogen gas, then the current Honda Civic GX natural gas vehicle is a much more practical and higher gas mileage "Fuel Cell" vehicle than the "futures" that Detroit (or
Honda) keeps trying to "sell us."

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/

And the difference is that YOU can buy a Civic GX TODAY for $25,000 and take it home and plug it into your home "Phill" station (about $2000) which is hooked up to your home natural gas supply and you can fill up your GX with natural gas overnight and drive it away in the morning and the gas costs you're the equivalent of about $1.50 "a gallon" and the GX is considered the cleanest car sold in America today. [Presumably not counting the Tesla]

Which all sounds pretty similar in concept to a Battery Electric Vehicle where you plug it in overnight and drive it away in the morning and the energy costs you about the equivalent of $0.30 cents a gallon and you can sign up with your electrical company to get your electricity from wind power so your car is ZERO ABSOLUTE NADA polluting and then it costs you $0.33 cents "a gallon."

Or you can wait for your "Fool Cell" car to come along and then you are paying Honda that same $25,000 BUT TO LEASE THE CAR FOR THREE YEARS after which time you have ZERO ABSOLUTE NADA NOTHING for your money, and meanwhile you are paying a hydrogen subsidized price of -- well I don't know what the price would be because the only hydrogen gas stations are in California and if you look them up you find out that NONE OF THEM provide public access to anyone! So I guess you can just put your pretty FCX up on blocks and save it for your grandchildren!

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

PS: Honda says "Some Day" they plan to have a home fueling system for the FCX sort of like the "Phill" station for the GX and what goes into this FCX home fueling system? Is it water and electricity from your home solar
electric system or from your electrical company where you have signed up for the 100% Green Electricity option to get your power from Wind Mills?

OF COURSE NOT !

The FCX Home Fueling system is built to use natural gas, where once again the CO2 is released up into the atmosphere to join all the other CO2 global green house gases just the same as if you had burnt it in your much-less-expensive Civic GX natural gas vehicle in the first place!

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/owning/home-energy-station/